Wonder Woman

[dhampyresa]

I enjoyed it A LOT. I'm always a sucker for women fighting stuff, people being kind and righteously angry in the face of evil and fishes out of water situation; this movie delivers on all of this!

I saw it in VOSTFR. Only things I remember about the subtitling was that (a) we didn't get subtitles for whatever was said in French and (b) Steve called Diana 'vous' for a majority, if not all, the movie. I'll be using the names as they appeared in the subtitles.

I did not expect the framing device to have Diana living in France and working at the Louvre. Kind of really want a Diana vs recent French history fic, now.


I really wanted to title this "Don't bring a sword to a god fight".

The "Diana is basically a Greek golem" version of her origion story is my favourite and I'm really happy they went with it here. "[Her] mother fashioned her from clay" and "that's neat"!

I really loved seeing all the Amazons fight because wowza they look amazing. One of the characters at one point goes "An entire island of women like her? How do we get there?" and HARD SAME. (Then I felt bad, because my girlfriend was sitting right newt to me -- then again she is kind of build like an Amazon.)

Could have done with slightly less slow mo.

The entire movie is essentially "Diana no" "DIANA YES".

I was surprised at how many Americans were in this movie about WW1. Two is a lot! The US was basically 15mn late with Starbucks in WW1. Then again Chief, who is Native American (Blackfoot) had some very pointed comments to make about non-Native Americans.

I had reservations about the setting being WW1, but I think the movie handled it mostly okay. I would have liked Samir to be explicitly French* rather than it being subtext and/or headcanon -- I'm not just saying that because I was reading Le chat du rabbin recently. Samir has a French accent and it makes more sense for someone who "wanted to be an actor but [he] was the wrong colour" and is of North African descent to be from the French colonial empire rather than the British. Also, it would be really weord for a WW1 movie set in mostly-France to not have a single French* character. Also also, I feel like the fact that France was a colonial empire at the time of the World Wars is often not mentionned and/or deliberately silenced (hahaha my country sometimes you really suck) even though, for example, the Division marocaine (Moroccan Division) was the most decorated French* unit in WW1.

*(for a value of French that includes the French colonial empire)

I appreciated that the war was portrayed as A COMPLETE SHITSHOW with all sides sharing their part of responsibility in the mess that it is.

The last fight lasted too long and tbh I think it would have been more relevant to the point of the movie if Ares hadn't been there. I tend not to like stories where non-humans are responsible for horrors humans did, but I could tolerate it here.

ANYWAY DIANA IS THE BEST. SHE IS SO BRAVE AND SO SMART AND SO STRONG AND HAS MUSCLES UP TO HERE (fitness goals!) AND SO KIND AND SO PRETTY AND SHE KICKS SO MUCH ASS.

I want her to each Etta how to fight and go to suffragette meetings. (I ship it.)

I appreciated that Dr Maru aka Dr Poison wasn't the ~femme fatale~ kind of female villain. Nope. SHE IS HERE TO POISON YOUR FACE. But she is still worthy of mercy, because everyone is. (I also ship it.)

Also, Hyppolyta and Antiope are SO MARRIED and that "sister" is for "sister in arms". I was also pleased that there was a line about men not being necessary for pleasure.

I reccomend it and would happily watch several movies of Diana kicking ass all over history.

Comments

Comments on your comments

[ng_moonmoth]

>> Could have done with slightly less slow mo. <<

That bothered me too, for a while -- until I worked out what might be motivating it. The director has done a good job of realizing a comic book in movie form, and this could well have been her way of rendering the large close-up frames that frequently appear as part of comic book action sequences. Viewed that way, it worked well for me.

>> I would have liked Samir to be explicitly French* <<

In the storyline as it was presented in the US version, the meetup with Samir happened in the Ottoman Empire, and Samir was explicitly made out to be Turkish. In fact, the actor portraying him (at least on the basis of his name) is of Turkish heritage. Matching the ethnic backgrounds of the actors with that of the characters they portrayed seems to be a principle of the casting team, so I would expect his being Turkish to be in line with the comic book canon.

>> Also, it would be really weord for a WW1 movie set in mostly-France <<

Again in the US version, the dialogue explicitly set the portion of the front where the action took place in Belgium. And there's been a fair amount of discussion here about cultural differences between what was portrayed and actual culture in French-speaking Belgium.

Was the French version different in these regards?

>> I reccomend it and would happily watch several movies of Diana kicking ass all over history. <<

As would I. We are likely to go again with some friends who weren't available when we went last weekend.

Re: Comments on your comments

[dhampyresa]

this could well have been her way of rendering the large close-up frames that frequently appear as part of comic book action sequences

Ooh, good point!

In the French version of the movie (fyi, VOSTFR is "version originale sous-titrée français"/"original version with French subtitles"), they met up with Samir in a London pub, same as Charlie. I don't think Diana ever goes to the Ottoman Empire, actually.

the actor portraying him (at least on the basis of his name) is of Turkish heritage
Interesting that his name struck you as Turkish, because it looked pretty clearly Amazigh (Berber) to me. And indeed Saïd Taghmaoui is a Franco-Morrocan (with dual US nationality) of Chleuh origin. According to this, he sees his character as "A French Moroccan who fought with the French, ends up in Europe, hangs around, goes to London and connects with people with war experiences."

How was he made out to be Turkish in the movie?

the dialogue explicitly set the portion of the front where the action took place in Belgium.

It's possible that it was in Belgium and I missed them saying so! I assumed it was in Alsace, because the women saying they'd been enslaved spoke a Germanic language (but not German), which would fit with Alsatian. If it's in Belgium, it must have been Flemish.

a fair amount of discussion here about cultural differences between what was portrayed and actual culture in French-speaking Belgium

I would like to see this, if you have links.


Apparently there's a sequel in the works!

Re: Comments on your comments

[ng_moonmoth]

>> Interesting that his name struck you as Turkish <<

I was under the impression, as the credits were rolling past, that the name I saw (apparently his) had some additional diacritical marks where I would have expected them in Turkish. (This is entirely a visual inference; I have been in areas that have significant Turkish presence and signage, and like to get an idea of what various languages look like so I can better identify locales I see, but I have never been to, or even very near, Turkey.)

>> How was he made out to be Turkish in the movie? <<

The first scene I saw him in was an establishing scene in an Ottoman Empire scene (cued by red crescent flag; also, I believe there was a caption) showing a camp containing Germans. So I expected him to be Turkish. I guess that inference wasn't valid.

>> I would like to see this, if you have links. <<

Unfortunately, this was an extended verbal discussion at a weekly science fiction club meeting, about what the film got right and wrong. So I can't help you there.

Thanks for engaging on this!

Re: Comments on your comments

[dhampyresa]

The first scene I saw him in was an establishing scene in an Ottoman Empire scene (cued by red crescent flag; also, I believe there was a caption) showing a camp containing Germans.

I don't remember that scene at all! What happened in it?

this was an extended verbal discussion at a weekly science fiction club meeting

Cool! Do you have a Belgian there?

Re: Comments on your comments

[ericadawn16]

In your defence, they did have a lot of references/scenes to Turkey/in Turkey and about the Ottoman involvement with the Germans. It was a little weird seeing it less than two months after The Promise showed just how evil the real people were.

I thought Moroccan but he also gave off a Casablanca vibe to me even though that film wasn't until 1942.

Re: Comments on your comments

[ng_moonmoth]

That's probably where I got the impression from. It's harder to keep track of details when there's a good story going on.

[muccamukk]

I was assuming Chief was Canadian (like the actor), and Samir was French, because that made the most sense for where they were.

I liked all the Indian Regiments in the train scene. It seems like they're getting more recognition recently.

I also want ALL the fic with Etta/Diana (and Samir/Charlie/Chief) figuring out what to do with their lives post war.

I liked Maru as a female evil scientist, because hey need more of those. I could have lived without the disability = creepy and gross thing they had going on with her prosthetic.

I loved all the Amazons. I've been seeing a bunch of interviews with the athletes who played them who were just so chuffed about the whole thing.

[dhampyresa]

Chief was Canadian (like the actor)
That makes sense.

More recognition is always good!

YESSSSSSSSSSSS ALL THE POST-WAR FIC Onwards into les années folles and the Roaring twenties!

I could also have done without the prosthetic thing.

Those interviews sound great! Any links?

[muccamukk]

I'm pretty sure I heard they were going to Belgium too, but a lot of the dialogue flew by, so it could have been Alsace.

This is the only article I could find: http://narrative.ly/how-the-fiercest-warrior-in-wonder-woman-kicked-her-way-into-hollywood/

I remember another one about the group strength training, but I think it was on tumblr, so never see it again now.

[dhampyresa]

I mostly assumed it was Alsace based on the scene where Steve and Diana at the village fountain: the awning behind them read "BIER Café-Buvette" which really bugged me as Bier is no a French word, but a German one. It's also a Flemish one, so it could definitely be Belgium.

Thanks for the link, that was fascinating!

[ericadawn16]

Actually, "Chief" is even more interesting than all of that...
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/wonder-woman-chief-eugene-brave-rock/

[dhampyresa]

ooh, that is SO cool!

[yuuago]

I loved the movie too. <3 DIANA IS SO COOL. I LOVE HER. A++ would watch a zillion more movies with her.

Agreed about the last fight being too long, tho'. I tend to get bored during "final boss" scenes in superhero movies anyway, but... eh. It just kind of dragged a little.

Also agreed on shipping Diana/Etta and Diana/Dr Maru, whups. You know, I actually found myself a lot more interested in Maru than I ever would have expected to be... I dunno, maybe the mask drew me in. And the fact that she's here to, as you put it, POISON YOUR FACE.

Hadn't even considered the stuff about Samir, but I get what you're saying. It would've been good if the film had been more clear about those details. It's really weird that there aren't any named French characters in this film, now that you point it out. :Va

& Like one of the commenters above, I'm going to assume Chief is meant to be from Canada. Partly because the actor + more statistically likely, but also because, even if it isn't specifically mentioned, I just... would like to pretend he's a reference to the Indigenous contributions to Canada's war effort (which, like the French Colonial divisions you mentioned, are not acknowledged nearly enough in anything).

[dhampyresa]

I am so happy the movieis getting a sequel! It needs a billion more, but one is a start.

maybe the mask drew me in
This feeling, I know it well.

It's really weird that there aren't any named French characters in this film, now that you point it out.
Right? RIGHT?

Yeah, I'm going to go with Chief being Canadian, for the reasons you say.

[ericadawn16]

Wait, your version kept the Golem story?

My version had that she was told the Golem story but the truth was the New 52 version where her father was Zeus and she herself was the Godkiller.

[dhampyresa]

The dialogue called Zeus her father and I assumed that was a reference to him animating her golem. I suppose it could also be that he's her biological dad, but I don't like that story so I'm sticking to mine.