One more Ide for the road

[dhampyresa]

Okay, this is going to be my last Ides of March themed post for this year, I swear.

So! Rome thoughts, yes? This is going to be a bit disjointed, because I last saw these episodes lo these mumble-mumble weeks ago and am working on memory only, but here goes.

I don't like their Caesar. My feelings about Caesar outside if Astérix are pretty much unformly negative (RUINING IT FOR THE REST OF US, etc) nad even then only because Astérix is hilarious and he tends to lose. My favourite Astérix!Caesar is actually probably the one from the animated Cleopatra movie or possibly the live-action Cleopatra movie? Or maybe the comics. Anyway, that's some top-notch Caesar-ing. Rome? Yeah, not so much. I just didn't bond with the character on any level beyond "HAHAHA YOU GON GET STABBED".

Also, dear show, it's not that I was expecting you to throw Caesar and Mark Anthony in bed together (speaking of which, I'm about 90% sure that the dude who got me the episodes ships it), but really you couldn't throw in any reference to Caesar being bisexual? Like, hello, queer people, we exist and we would like some representation, please. I guess there's Octavia/Servilia, but come on, show, the historically queer dude is right there.

Octavian is so young, OMG. SO TINY. But it is also SO CONFUSING that he's Octavian, because I keep thinking he's Alix. Pitch-perfect Alix casting, seriously. Like, the first time he showed up on screen I thought "hey, no one told me Alix was going to be in this" then "wait, Alix is fictional. guess they got the rights, though". This is funny if you know who Alix is, btw. (The rest of this review will be a lot less bande dessinée-centric, btw, you can breathe a sigh of relief.)

I was really liking their Octavian, but then the thing with Octavia happened and so I was out of ther on the first train to Nopeville. I still find him a very compelling character and one I like to watch, but not necessarily one I like.

I've no real feelings on their Mark Anthony. He... Mark Anthonys, I guess. I like the Mark Anthony from Horrible Histories better, but like above with Caeasar and Astérix, it's probbaly just that Horrible Histories is funny.

In fairness to Mark Anthony's actor, I'm fairly sure he's the only male character to get a full frontal nudity scene, so props to you, dude. Props to you.

I really liked Octavia and I thought her romance with Servilia was rather sweet, but then the thing happened and like with Octavian, Nopetrain to Nopeville. I can't even be bothered to have any feelings for Attia that isn't complete apathy or mild dislike/occasional outright hatred (she hits her kids! and is generally pretty abusive, especially towards Octavia).

I thought Servilia was a fascinating character. I really love her whole arc. A++ would watch again Her relationship with Brutus was also super interesting and very believable.

Speaking of Brutus! His character arc is great and I have this whole thing about duty vs friendship and yeah. That was very enjoyable.

And okay, am I supposed to be shipping Brutus and Cicero? Because I am. There are at least two places where they have a dialog like

Cicero: I shall do This Thing.
Brutus: I'll do That Instead.
Cicero: I shall do That Instead as well.

It's pretty funny. I really like their interaction in general.

A good point for the show: it did manage to make me care about one of the Catos, which is no small feat because ALL THE CATOS ARE TERRIBLE. Then again, in Republic vs Empire, I will always side with the Republic. So you can pretty much imagine that I'm making a frowny face at the screen roughly 50% of the time while I'm watching.

NO. NO MORE EMPIRE FOR YOU PEOPLE. YOU'RE ALL FIRED. >:(

As far as people who were made up for the show (iirc) go, I really like Niobe! She's pretty great and she's so resilient. She's made the ebst of so many bad situations and she's had to adapt to so many things and she's still so kind and I love it. (Guess how much I enjoyed the end of the season on her side of things? NOT MUCH.)

Eirene is totally the best! I like that she doesn't trust Pullo right away and that she manages to build a life for herself with the Vorenus family. Not sure how I feel about her reconciliation with Pullo.

Posca's pretty neat too and doesn't put up with any of Caesar's bullshit, so good for him! I hops he's still around in season 2.

I like Vorenus and Pullo okay. My favourite moment with both of them is either the conversation about gods in Egypt or this bit, which showcases both their characters perfectly:




Vorenus is so grumpy, it's hilarious. (Except when he goes all murder happy on people I like.) Or, you know, like Atia says: "The sullen Catonian one [and] the cheerful, brutish one".

I think my favourite scene just might be the scene where Brutus and co pull a Gretchen-from-Mean-Girls and decide they should totally just stab Caesar,



if only for the phrase "This is not some cheap murder!" I mean, the rest of Brutus' speech ("It is an honorable thing we do. It must be done honorably, in daylight, on the Senate floor, with our own hand... with my hand.") is also great, but that one sentence is particularly great.

I regret that the passage of time wasn't established more clearly. The first season takes place over six or so years, but it's really not all that clear. I based myself on the length of Vercingetorix's emprisonment to get this figure. There's a newsreader/town crier that shows up regularly, they could have had him give the year Ab Urbe Condita.

Overall, I found this series very compelling and enjoyed it. I'll definitely be watching the second season.

Oh, and I first got the idea to watch this from a woman giving a conference at the Louvre on Ancient History (different area of study, though) and praising its historical accuracy so ther eyou go.

Comments

[dhampyresa]

WOW THAT IS WRONG ON SO MANY LEVEL HOLY SHIT

Let's just address "every inhabitant of that empire enjoyed personal liberty", shall we? Every inhabitant UNLESS THEY WERE A SLAVE or female or a freedman or even a plebeian, to some extent.

Okay, no, I can't stop there. "the French today are deeply proud of Caesar and the great conquest that created the nation of France." THE FUCK? I took an informal poll among my peers today and the reaction was pretty much "meh, Romans" and/or "well, I think our language owes just as much to Greek, really..." (my reaction to Romans is pretty well documented at this point, but here goes: I LIVE ON DEAD ROMANS HAHAHA) and jesus fuck but the Romans didn't create France you asshole YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH (I am so angry at this, holy shit. The creation of French identity is still a fraught topic even today, but sure, the fucking Romans did it). But, yeah, the French are totally proud of their Roman heritage. That's why the most popular comic series here is about a bunch of Gauls (breton Gauls even) making an utter mockery of Rome and the Romans.

Astérix is massive. MASSIVE. It's very hard to explain, because it's not something that comes up often, but it just is? Idk how to descibe it. Best I can do is that when the lastest album came out and it wasn't terrible you could practically feel the whole country breathing a great big sigh of relief.

I learned that sound as kid in summer camp. I went to summer camp for years and learned a new bawdy song every year lmao. That was one of them. As far as I know it has no basis on any actuality.

I'd be interested to hear what you have to say on La Marseillaise, but however did it end up in your head?

[ljwrites]

WOW THAT IS WRONG ON SO MANY LEVEL HOLY SHIT

I KNOW RIGHT. I know I get rage-y when someone presumes to know All About Koreans. To have an outsider blithely say they know what you feel and think about your identity better than you, so don't worry your little head about it, dear--so condescending. So erasing.

Every inhabitant UNLESS THEY WERE A SLAVE or female or a freedman or even a plebeian, to some extent.

I got a strong sense that Fears is drawing a parallel between ancient Rome and the U.S., and in both instances my answer is NOPE.

the Romans didn't create France you asshole YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH

AGREED. The assertion that the Romans created France doesn't work within the bounds of Fears' own argument, since he clearly says that Caesar invaded and annexed a formerly independent people--one that had a preexisting identity as Gauls.

I don't know, maybe the invasion created a greater sense of unity than there was before, since I imagine the different groups banded against a common threat, kind of like how Arab nationalism was a response to Western colonialism. But if so Fears didn't make that argument, whether in the passage I quoted or anywhere in that lecture.

That's why the most popular comic series here is about a bunch of Gauls (breton Gauls even) making an utter mockery of Rome and the Romans.

I remember thinking that of the Asterix books, too, like, hmm, the French must be pretty invested in their Gaul heritage! I think that's why the books resonated with a Korean audience, because we've had our history of colonial rule and threatened erasure of our identity, too. Plus, the books are funny as hell!

Is it significant that Asterix and co. are Bretons? But then Breton seems to be a term for the inhabitants of Britannia, at least in the book Asterix chez les Bretons? (I LOL'd at just the synopsis. British soldiers won't fight while they drink their hot water with a drop of milk! XD And the villager Anticlimax and the Druid Getafix... OMG, dying.) I also found this article about Asterix while looking for "Asterix" and "Breton." (Side note: I've seen Anthea Bell's work before--she also did Stefan Zweig's Beware of Pity. According to her Wikipedia page she translated numerous French, German, and Danish works into English.)

I'd be interested to hear what you have to say on La Marseillaise, but however did it end up in your head?

It seems to have been totally at random. Maybe memories of Casablanca surfaced in my subconscious, maybe it had to do with the Charlie Hebdo coverage? I just got the hankering to listen to it one evening, and I've memorized the two most famous verses in addition to the refrain and sing it every day now. (Help)

[dhampyresa]

I am so tired of USAmericans just barging in into everything and acting like they know best. Because it is almost always USAmericans who act like this.

You can make an argument that Caesar created a more unified Gaul, because they were uniting against him, but not a united Frence, WTF?

In the context of French national identity, it is in fact significant that Astérix and co are from Brittany. French identity has been constructed at least in part at the expanse of what are currently regional identities, such as the Breton identity (I may have gone on a slightly incoherent rant on that subject in this entry).

OKAY YES I WILL EXPLAIN THE BRETON THING!

In French, the words for "Brittany" and "Britain" are the same: "Bretagne". (In breton, "Breizh" (sort of), leading to the BZH abbreviation, idk if you've seen it.) Currently, Great Britain is la Grande-Bretagne and Brittany is simply la Bretagne. At the time Astérix is set in however, Great-Britain is simply la Bretagne and Brittany is l'Armorique (from the breton "armor", meaning "the coast"). You can also find those referred to as "la Bretagne insulaire" (insulary Britain) and "la Bretagne armoricaine" (the coastal Brittany; see for example the beginning of Manau's La Tribu de Dana). Inhabitants of Bretagne (whichever) are called Breton(ne)(s), except for inhabitants of Grande-Bretagne, who are Brittanique(s). Inhabitans of Armorique are Armoricain(e)(s).

Which means that in Astérix chez les Bretons you have a group of Armoricains visiting the Bretons due to the time period while they would be Bretons visiting Brittaniques today.

Confused yet? It gets worse, if I throw in la/les Cournouaille(s).

Your "OMG, dying" reaction is pretty much what Astérix is like ALL THE TIME while French-reading, lamo. I think I know where I can find a couple of Astérix albums in English, I should read them just to compare. Thanks for the link to the article! It's really great and surprisingly accurate. (And I agree that Uderzo-solo books are not very good, on the whole. they range from 'pretty okay actually' to 'what album 33? isn't weird that the series jumped from 32 to 34. how strange'.)

I'm sorry, I can't help. I actually like La Marseillaise for a variety of reasons and the French national motto "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" too, that include the fact if you look at when they've been used in French history as symbols of French identity, they weren't used when France was not France/a republic.

[ljwrites]

I am so tired of USAmericans just barging in into everything and acting like they know best. Because it is almost always USAmericans who act like this.

Because Amurrica's the greatest country in the world!!!!111eleventyone Speaking of American rhetoric, it's interesting that France is something of a football for the American left and right. To the right it's a symbol of decadence, while the left usually compares it favorably to America. A New Rules monologue by Bill Maher was emblematic of the left's stance toward France, though Maher's praise of French reticence about public figures' private lives is ironic given later events. Michael Moore's Sicko similarly presented the French healthcare system as a model.

Americans sometimes use Korea as a model, too, and I usually find that embarrassing because our education system which they praise is really a sick mess, if less so than the U.S. system. Our wi-fi access is cool, though, no doubt about that. I freaking get wi-fi on the bus I take to work! It's nowhere as important as a well-functioning system of public education, but I'll take what I can get.

In the context of French national identity, it is in fact significant that Astérix and co are from Brittany.

Ah, so that was the connection. Are you saying that it's significant that the main characters are Bretons because it places this historically marginalized group in the roles of heroes? OTOH couldn't it also be appropriative to present a group that suffered for the creation of a national identity as the symbols of that national identity? That's an honest question, since I'm not aware of the nuances of French identity or of Asterix, for that matter.

I actually like La Marseillaise for a variety of reasons

Yeah, it's uh... gobsmackingly bloody, now that I know the words. I find that exciting in comparison to our own staid and politically correct national anthem. The song does a great job of capturing both the urgency of the days when it was written and the universal response of violent rhetoric against outside threats. Plus it's so damned catchy!

Help from the earworm arrived, as often happens, in the form of another earworm: The Internationale. I think it had to do with reading a book review of Foucault's Il faut défendre la société, a book in which Foucault argues that nationalism erases and ignores class divisions to enforce bourgeois rule. My brain seems to have decided that La Marseillaise stands for bourgeois nationalism and L'internationale is the antidote, lol.

[sovay]

I got a strong sense that Fears is drawing a parallel between ancient Rome and the U.S., and in both instances my answer is NOPE.

It makes me wonder who he thought the American Caesar was. (Whoever it was, he was probably wrong.)