dhampyresa (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
dhampyresa) wrote2014-05-28 11:52 pm
dhampyresa) wrote2014-05-28 11:52 pm
Entry tags:
Reading meme
What did you finish reading
Nothing.
What are you reading now
The Gospel of Loki, by Joanne Harris: I'm only about 5 chapters in (Svadilfari just cam on the scene, for those familiar), but it's great so far. I love the Loki voice between the humour ("I sat up and tried a winning smile. No one around me seemed to be won.") and the contrast between young!Loki the story is happening to and old!Loki telling it to us and the way old!Loki's venom occasionally peeks out from under young!Loki's:
Other than that, I still have my familiar problems with Harris' Runemarks series that this is a prequel too, but maybe that'll change by the end of this book.
What are you reading next
I don't know yet.
Nothing.
What are you reading now
The Gospel of Loki, by Joanne Harris: I'm only about 5 chapters in (Svadilfari just cam on the scene, for those familiar), but it's great so far. I love the Loki voice between the humour ("I sat up and tried a winning smile. No one around me seemed to be won.") and the contrast between young!Loki the story is happening to and old!Loki telling it to us and the way old!Loki's venom occasionally peeks out from under young!Loki's:
Who needs friends when you can have the certitudes of hostiity? You know where you stand with an enemy. You know he won't betray you. it's the ones who claim to be your friends that you need to be aware of. Still, that was a lesson I was yet to learn.I like Loki's "never trust X" rules, although they are sometimes heartbreaking: "So, until then, remember this: Never trust a friend." Oh, Loki. I like the insights into Norse mythology ("Still, you'll notice that history doesn't reveal what happened to Odin's other brothers, the legendary Vili and Ve.") and the clever way it gets played with ("My father was a lightning strike and my mother was a pile of dry twigs (no that's not a metaphor) which, to be fair to Yours Truly, made for pretty poor parenting."). I loved the beginning of the "Odin and Loki become bloodbrothers" scene
'It seems to me that someone like you could be a big hit in my camp.'but I hated the way it ended, because OMG NO WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? If there's one moment in all of Norse mythology where Odin and Loki are truly equals, it's that one. I mean, I know the myths don't give us the story, but I can't think of that moment as anything else. If Odin forces Loki into being his brother, like here, then their relationship looks completely different and makes them both look like idiots, frankly: Odin for placing even the smallest measure of trust in someone he has no reason to trust and Loki for just going with Odin on it. Take the rune and run, Loki, you'll save yourself a world of trouble.
'I bet they could. What's in it for me?'
'Well, freedom, to begin with. Freedom and opportunity.'
'Freedom? Do me a favour. Do you think I'm not free?'
He shook his head. 'You think you are?'
Other than that, I still have my familiar problems with Harris' Runemarks series that this is a prequel too, but maybe that'll change by the end of this book.
What are you reading next
I don't know yet.
no subject
I have been wondering about that book, the one by A.S. Byatt and the Children of Loki but I can be a very timid reader when it comes to reading out of my comfort zone...although Riordan's new series really can't come fast enough for me.
no subject
I haven't read any of the other two, so I can't speak to them, and of course I haven't finished this one, but let me rec Runemarks.
Gospel of Loki is a prequel to Runemarks and it shows. I don't mean that it isn't understandable on its own, because so far it is, but it's very clearly set in the same universe. Some of the 'familiar problems' I mention are a consequence of the wordbuilding for that book (I'd be hard-pressed to say what bugs me exactly about shoving norse gods into an Order/Chaos dichotomy, but it does bug me, for example). The thing is, most of the problems I have with the series as a whole (Runemarks, Runelight and now Gospel of Loki) are either downplayed in or work to the advantage of Runemarks.
If what you like about Riordan's new series is 'random kid is actually a demi-god', Runemarks might very well scratch that itch too. It's about Maddy Smith, who can do magic and has a friend called One-Eye and even saying a little bit more would be spoilery. It has an excellent protagonist in the person of Maddy, I loved the twist(s), the Loki voice in it and the characterisation of Odin are excellent, Skadi plays an important role (Skadi!) and omg Hel/Baldr, yesssssssssss.
All that being said, while the book relies a lot (almost exclusively theologically, but not, hum, physically, if that makes sense?) on Norse mythology, I don't think an in-depth knowledge of it is necessary to enjoy the book. I do have in-depth knowledge of norse mythology, so I might be biased, but Maddy knows shit about it and we're mostly (maybe even only? it's been a while) in her head, so we get the revelations at the same time she does and since the revelations carry emotional weight whether you figured them out earlier or not, it doesn't feel pointless if you have. The reason for this is that the book is set post-Ragnarok and begins like this: which is pretty fucking cool as far as opening sentences go. The book does start a little slow, but it is very worth it, in the end.
If you can find it and if that's your thing, I would most absolutely reccomend the audiobook, for it is brilliant. The reader does the voices! And gives related characters the same accent!
no subject
Umm...no, lol, actually, that's what me not want to read it at first because it sounded like yet another attempt to cash in on Harry Potter. However, I have a friend whose reading tastes I trust insist that I read it.
What really sucked me in at first was how he had transformed these millennia old tales and placed them into a modern context while still keeping the main points of the original story. For the younger reader, they get to be exposed to all these stories before they're covered later because schools don't have the time for such stories like they used to. We didn't really cover them in depth until high school. For me, I loved a refresher course in Greek and Roman mythology, including the more obscure stuff that I wasn't sure I learned in the first place.
It also helped I've always been partial to satyrs...falling for James McAvoy was just inevitable..., there were a number of strong females which he has written better and increased with each book and there was a character that I now realize I liked for almost all the same reasons I love Loki but this was before I liked Loki.
The most recent book also has the first occurrence I've ever seen in a YA novel of a major character being revealed as gay and other characters being able to comment/support them on it. So between all of this and my curiosity about how Riordan being a Hiddlestoner might affect things, makes me really excited for his take on things.
I definitely need to track down Runemarks though, thanks for being more in depth about it.
no subject
I don't think I was ever taught mythology in school. Of course, I might have been and not remember, since I tend to not remember being taught anything I already knew and I was reading mythologies really young.
When you say Loki, do you mean Marvel!Loki or myth!Loki? I love both, but they are pretty different characters.
Oh! I had no idea Riordan had written books after the Percy Jackson series (that I haven't even finished reading, oops). These look great, I think I'll start reading them next.
I hope you enjoy Runemarks and don't hesitate to ask for more details on books I'm reading. (You might also like Everworld, idk.)
no subject
Then, I saw Midnight in Paris and I TOTALLY got the Tom Hiddleston thing then, lol.
So, it started off as MCU Loki with fanon thrown in, but then, there was so little MCU Loki that we were all studying the myths especially when the films included Sleipnir or references to his other children.
This was right around the time that Journey into Mystery still had Kid!Loki...I'm usually a sucker for that sort of thing; Muppet Babies, Tazmania, Flintstone Kids, etc.
But I loved Kid!Loki and then, I was totally not surprised when Tom Hiddleston mentioned being such a fan of the series because Kid!Loki did seem to mesh with his characterization more than the classic Marvel version. Then, he joined up with the Young Avengers, including one of my most favorite characters ever...Kate Bishop and I loved it. I am waiting for the graphic novel in August to read the new Loki series but it sounds awesome.
I now love basically any Loki...basically because the classic Marvel Loki is just...weird looking and exceptionally angry. Even if he is a God, I feel like any being that's had that much sex and it's generally not described as rape unlike Odin...must be fairly good-looking in addition to the witty way with words.
One thing that I would love to be addressed more is that some scholars interpret the Lokasenna to mean that Odin has also taken female form and borne children like Loki...if nothing else, that seems like perfect fanfiction fodder.
no subject
I picked up Journey into Mystery because Stephanie Hans was doing the covers. (I got to meet her once later, actually, and she was super nice and told me to brace for the Leah thing.)
Then I finally watched Thor because Avengers was coming out. I can't remember any references to Loki's other children in the movies, though.
I think kid!Loki and AoA!Loki are a lot closer to myth!Loki than previous Marvel Lokis.
That remark on Kate and kid!Loki reminds me I drew a fancomic with that premise, way back before JiM 645 came out. I should still have it around somewhere.
Agent of Asgard is awesome! You're really missing out. I'll be getting the trade in August too, if I can find the time to block out an afternoon and go to the US-comics-in-English store.
I still occasionally boggle at how different Marvel loki is from myth Loki, but then I remember that I'm a big BIG fan of the Loki from Dogma and that Loki has nothing to do with myth Loki at all. (But. Seriously. A frost giant?) I'm curious, where are you getting your Odin rape thing from? I don't remember that from the myths.
Well, Odin practices seidr, which is essentially the female form of magic, so there's definitely something going on there.
(Also, for some reason I had't friended you back, so now I do.)
Part One
I grew up with two older brothers and one of them has almost always been deeply into comics. I say almost because he had stopped keeping up with as much for the last ten years or so, so during Free Comic Book Day, our oldest nephew and I were filling him in on Miles Morales, Kate Bishop, etc.
Anyway, he made me watch the animated shows, he had a bootleg of the original Punisher movie, tons of comics AND he gave me comics and SUBSCRIPTIONS.
I don't know when Marvel stopped doing this, but you used to be able to have a mail subscription like you would for a magazine. You just needed to either pay Marvel if you were in the United States or whichever distributor was in charge for that country and it'd be sent to your mailbox. It was like the gift that kept coming all year. He gave me subscriptions for Muppet Babies and Thundercats because those were my favorites. However, when they stopped being published, I didn't get more subscriptions. I began getting magazine subscriptions instead.
I found out later that this was due to the subscriptions coming in brown paper wrappers, similar to pornography, and my mom was embarrassed that it looked like her five year old daughter was receiving pornographic magazines.
I was also a little turned off because I liked to read and look at them because they were fun, but my brother had turned into...a collector. He was worried about how I was handing his magazines so I could only read them with permission. Instead, I just stopped reading his which led to a very spotty comics knowledge between 1991-1999...honestly, I'm not sure I missed much. A lot of stuff in the '90s just seems very messed up.
Anyway, the Marvel looks have always been ingrained in me so Thor not being blond, Loki not having black hair or Sif being a blond always seemed WEIRD and WRONG, lol.
It's kind of hard to decide for Sif. On one hand, she's important enough that her hair is created at the same time as all these other important objects but then at its heart, it's not an important tool or weapon, it's hair. It feels like it's confirming a woman's importance based on her beauty.
For Marvel, again her hair is created by Dwarves and makes her even more beautiful but I like that it's not a plotpoint. It's not the important thing about her. My headcanon is that cutting her hair freed her from being expected to be pretty above all to being able to decide her own fate, like being a warrior. I know I'm not alone in this because there are even some fanfiction stories where she ASKS Loki to cut her hair.
I like how one of the deleted scenes in Thor took the hair myth and twisted it. In Lokasenna, Loki refers to his sleeping with Sif and some have theorized that this is when he was close enough to cut her hair. In the deleted scene, Sif is playing with and forced to turn over a very distinctive dagger. In other materials for the film, it's actually identified as Loki's dagger. Many think she stole if after sleeping with him.
I have wrestled with how many myths portray them so differently and whether I should address that in my story and if so, how?
So, I came up with a headcanon for it. In the 11th century, Thor, Loki and their cohorts caused too much damage in the mortal world, including fathering Harald Hadrada, so Odin banned them for a thousand years.
As such, the Norse began to forget exactly what they looked like. The only person still in contact with Midgard was Hela. Hela is amazingly, stunningly beautiful with red hair and green eyes. They start basing what Thor and Loki must look like based on her, but time passes, she stops visiting as much and the old prejudices come in. Death is associated with the basest, most ugly form of humanity. It doesn't make sense that she would be so beautiful especially with Loki's other children to consider so they make her into a monster even though it's not reality.
Part Two
Thor's vambraces seem to set a precedent that their armour is decorated with those lost and/or held dear...most say this symbolizes Loki:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/f22254bb39810c39bfeda9260bb6e79b/tumblr_mgtiboAfVy1rknc2io1_500.jpg
Especially since his vambraces in The Dark World are plain after Loki has been found alive.
This is a more thorough post on it:
http://off-duty-librarian.tumblr.com/post/35045996887/there-is-an-original-post-is-here
I noticed Jörmungandr on his armor when I watched Avengers the second or third time and was very happy about it. I was a little sad that the new people involved with The Dark World didn't seem to care about those sort of details like Joss Whedon and Kenneth Branagh did.
YES! Fancomic, I would like to see it please!
Eventually, I'm going to make up a situation so Kid!Loki and Kate Bishop can be in the same room in my fanfiction, but it's going to take a while to make that happen.
I used to be able to read comics at bookstores, but Marvel stopped shipping them single issues and there weren't any close comic book stores. One finally opened forty minutes away last month, but by then, they were already on the fourth issue so I thought I might as well wait. The only one I've been buying the single issues with now has been the Serenity miniseries.
Hehe, I Tweeted once that I have to say God Bless You after a sneeze or I'm afraid Loki will kill me and Kevin Smith Favorited it. I was so happy.
I suppose a lot of it would be the Comic Book Code and not being allowed to do all the sex stuff in the myths, like the incest so they had to keep inventing new things. I do love the idea that despite everything, despite hating everyone, Loki went back in time and made sure that Odin would find him as a baby.
The Frost Giant thing...the biggest thing about that and I am glad to see more authors picking up on this...Odin was giant himself!
Well, "mountain giant" is how Marvel says it, but MCU seems to just skipped all that and made all giants Frost Giants so...
where are you getting your Odin rape thing from? I don't remember that from the myths.
Rindr? I can't find anything else outside of Marvel, but are we supposed to just assume a one-time rapist is only a one-time rapist?
Oh yeah, Marvel, in Thor: For Asgard #3 (2010), Jord/Gaia/Earth says that it wasn't consensual and that Odin had raped her all those years ago, producing Thor.
Although Odin is often referred to as a product of rape himself outside the comics.
Re: Part Two
I have this weird, irrational annoyance at collectors. BOOKS ARE MEANT TO BE READ, OKAY?
Well, iirc, Thor's hair colour is never mentionned, only his beard colour and since I have a Norwegian friend with blond hair, a red beard and brown eyebrows (all natural and the colours are similar be distinctly not the same), it's entirely possible for him to be blond in the myths. I completely understand your feelings of WEIRDness and WRONGness, though. that's how I feel about any adaptation of the myths that doesn't have redhaired Loki.
All the adaptations I've seen that dealt with the hair cutting myth have had it happen after Loki sleeps with her. (I really really like the interpretation that she asks Loki to do it.)
I had no idea about that piece of trivia from the deleted scenes, it's awesome. Instant headcanon.
That's a pretty cool way to merge film canon to myth canon, although 11th century seems super late to have the Aesir visit Earth: not only is that when the Norse religion starts losing ground to Christianity, but it's often thought that Fimbulvetr refers to the Little Ice Age circa 600CE. I certainly place the Aesir/Frost Giant war on Midagrd shown in the first movie at that point in time.
It was super cool. Yay, conventions! (Although, from what I undersatnd, French conventions are slightly different from US conventions.)
Aww, man, that is super cool! I shoudl definitely start paying more attention to costuming.
Over here, although the art is kind of terrible, hahaha.
Lol, yeah, it's going to take a while, unless you assume that conscience!kid!Loki has a physical existence inside Noh-Varr's ship (because of the imagination engines). And then he could troll the Young Avengers, who have no idea he's not their Loki!
It's pretty annoying, because the US-comics-in-english store only sells US comics in English and fuck it, maybe I just wanted to pick up Les Quatre de Baker Street at the same time as Black Canary/Zatanna: Bloodspell, you know? So I mostly buy my comics at the local comc store which sells French comics and US-comics-in-French, but I don't buy US-comics-in-French, for reasons. (Reasons: a) Panini publishes Marvel and used to publish DC and the translation work is atrocious (why is Sue Storm's first name suddenly Jane? Why do you translate Hawkingbird two different ways IN THE SAME FUCKING BOOK?), b) Urban Comics publishes DC, but it's all nu52/postreboot stuff, which, lol now (unless it's Demon Knights. I might make an exception for Demon Knights) and more importantly, c) I made a deal with myself a long time ago that my book buying habot would follow this pattern: original language if I can read it, whatever's easiest to find if not. /tl;dr)
That is awesome!
There's really not that much incest in Norse myths. I mean, they're not Greeks (Greek/Roman mythology's entertaining enough, but damn if it isn't rape-and-incest central).
I feel kind of awkward discussing film canon, because I know shit all about it except what's in the movies themselves. I mean, I could blather on and on about my theory that Idunn's apples + genetic drift is what created the Aesir/Jotnar divide, if there exists a physical divide at all and not one that is mostly cultural in the myths, but for the movies I'm like... "the Odinsleep wasn't convinient, it was Odin having a heart attack when faced with Loki's rage. Take heart meds, Odin".
Hum, this is embarassing. I don't want to come off like I victim-blaming, because the incident described in the Gesta Danorum is pretty fucking clearly rape, but. It's the Gesta Danorum and when I was a LOT younger, I decided I wouldn't read/take as canonical anything post-Snorri (possibly including Snorri) himself, because they were ~wrong and ~biased and ~anti-pagan/pro-catholic church propaganda. So that's why I never knew aboout Rindr.
That said, I am saddened to say that I am not really surprised by how well rape-by-seduction-by-seidr fits with Odin's overall personality.
On a less depressing note to end this on, have you heard My Brother, My Enemy?
Re: Part Two
http://subscriptions.marvel.com/
I notice it specifies free shipping on "domestic" shipping so they might do overseas orders now.
My brother did get over the collecting stuff. He doesn't even care now.
Here are some stories with the different hair interpretations:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/1032969
http://archiveofourown.org/works/1138737
Marvel gives the year that Odin defeats the frost giants and adopts Loki as 965 AD so that's how I came up with 11th century. Before that point, I assume there was much freer travel between worlds.
My fanfiction is fairly AU at this point since I had Kate Bishop meeting Clint Barton before Cassie.
I looked at the comic book store after your comment and they had no languages for sale but English. I even realized how some are translated from other languages and I never noticed before.
Well, there's Freyr and Freyja and Der Ring des Nibelungen. There might be more than that, not as much as Greco-Roman or fanfiction authors obsessed with Thorki, but yeah, incest does happen.
The fact that Jotnar and Aesir can breed and produce fertile off-spring proves that they are the same species.The movie makes it seem like Odin wanted to have an Odinsleep but wanted to wait for Thor to be on the throne. I think the Odin-sleep is a regular occurrence...most think it's due to his magic usage although Loki and Frigga never appear to have any problems?
That's an interesting song. Another person who's watching the Loki anime said that she thought it seemed like Loki and Odin were brothers in that one, too. I felt like Loki and Thor were brothers, but it was very ambiguous.