2 Dune 2 spice

[dhampyresa]

I went to see Villeneuve's Dune pt2 (VOstFR -- original sound, French subtitles) with a friend. My friend summed both of our feelings as "That was a movie that we saw". Because it was a movie that we saw. The first one was better.

The pacing in this one is really weird and also it was SUPER LOUD at some points. Really liked Chani's friend, but it was never explained why she did what the thing at sietch Tabr.

I was most disappointed in how the cisterns were portrayed. They had inspired such awe in me at 7 year old that I doubt anything wouldn't have been though.

I was also disappointed in how similar all the architecture was -- this might be because I've been thinking about environmental storytelling lately, but having all three main factions of Empire, Atreides and Harkonnen all have the same-but-a-different-colour architectural and clothing style was such a missed opportunity. Especially since in place a piece of Harkonnen architecture reminded me of H R Giger. Both pseudo-brutalism and psychosexual Giger-esque techno-organic would work for the Harkonnens. But like. Pick one.

Big Jodorowski's La caste des Méta-Barons vives in places which like, duh. But still a bit disappointing -- my own dislike of Jodorowski aside, it's a wee bit played out, innit.

The Fremen Reverend Mothers' tatoos and clothing were extremely reminiscient of Amazigh ones. Which makes the dearth of Maghrebi cast members more blatant/sad.

I feel so bad for the sandworms. Everyone keeps shoving things into their nostrils :(

The Muad-dib mouse was only in it for ten or so seconds but it was very cute.

Comments

[kore]

The little mouse that goes hop-hop scene is my favourite in the whole book and I think it also beautifully symbolizes Paul's struggle not to unleash the jihad and try to hang onto himself. And the mouse was in part one! I was like WHERE IS THE MOUSE SCENE. Lol.

It didn't ping me when I read the book (probably bc I was like, ten, and reread it a bunch after that) but the use of costumes and vocals and music really does point out the....lack of Middle Eastern/Arab/South Asian actors. I dunno. I'm ashamed of myself for not being bothered by this earlier but I don't think the Lynch movie leaned as heavily on the "exotic" visuals. (And when _that_ came out, I was 13, oh my.)

[sovay]

the use of costumes and vocals and music really does point out the....lack of Middle Eastern/Arab/South Asian actors.

There was a very good article in The New Yorker about the centrality of Arabic to Herbert's Dune and what happens when it is replaced in the films by a conlang.

[kore]

Twenty years ago, viewers would have struggled to name franchises other than “Star Trek” or “The Lord of the Rings” that bothered to invent new languages.

Ursula Le Guin wants a word. (Not to mention Orwell, Burgess, Richard Adams....) The one I really remenver is Suzette Haden Elgin
(Yep, the author is a dude. Sigh)

[sovay]

Ursula Le Guin wants a word. (Not to mention Orwell, Burgess, Richard Adams....)

Look, I wouldn't have used Jackson's Lord of the Rings as the kickoff of modern commercial conlangs: I grew up around too many buttons and bumper stickers of Mark Okrand's Klingon. I still found the tracing of languages through Herbert valuable and agree it makes a particular political point when Villeneuve's future can contain spoken Mandarin and people named Jessica but not Arabic.

[kore]

Oh yeah, that was just a pretty big stumbling block!

[dhampyresa]

Thank you for the link!

The friend I saw the movie with speaks Tunisian Arabic and said it sounded a lot like Arabic while not being Arabic, which is a bit a bit nyergh of Villeneuve, I feel. Schrödinger's representation, I guess? And also having real Mandarin but fake Arabic is A Choice.

[sovay]

The friend I saw the movie with speaks Tunisian Arabic and said it sounded a lot like Arabic while not being Arabic

Definitely nyergh. What a weird thing to hear.

[dhampyresa]

I have to confess when I read the book I just assumed the Fremen were North African -- Kabyles, specifically. Look, you give me desert people with blue eyes, I just assume they're Kabyles, ok? [1] (Zinédine Zidane is likely the most famous person of Kabyle descent and he has blue eyes! It's a thing!)

[1] I also did this Wheel of Time, which I wasn't meant to :( and so *retracts Robert Jordan's "the Chosen One is not a white guy" award*

[sovay]

I have to confess when I read the book I just assumed the Fremen were North African -- Kabyles, specifically. Look, you give me desert people with blue eyes, I just assume they're Kabyles, ok?

Understandable!

As a child, I read for the first time the description of a character in Patricia McKillip's The Riddle-Master of Hed (1976)—

"The Morgol of Herun welcomed them into her courtyard. She was a tall woman with blue-black hair drawn back from her face, falling without a ripple against her loose robe of leaf-green cloth. Her house was a vast oval of black stone. Water from the river flowing beneath it fanned over stone fountains in her yard, formed tiny streams and pools where fish slipped liked red and green and gold flames beneath the tracery of shadows from the trees."

—and assumed instantly that she was East Asian. I later became unsure if she was meant to be, but she had koi!

[sovay]

-- this might be because I've been thinking about environmental storytelling lately, but having all three main factions of Empire, Atreides and Harkonnen all have the same-but-a-different-colour architectural and clothing style was such a missed opportunity.

Avoiding that sameness is actually one of the worldbuilding elements I have really enjoyed about Foundation. Even closely related cultures of different planets do not look interchangeable with one another, even if they share technology or traditions, and some of them which have been in galactic diaspora for millennia rather than centuries look very different. I believe the third season is finally supposed to have restarted filming after two different halts and I have my fingers crossed it will continue to be as good.

I was most disappointed in how the cisterns were portrayed. They had inspired such awe in me at 7 year old that I doubt anything wouldn't have been though.

Have a stepwell for consolation?

The Muad-dib mouse was only in it for ten or so seconds but it was very cute.

Hooray!

[kore]

Foundation is amazingly good, which is wild considering its source! (I inhaled all those books when I was about ten, lol. I don't think I could read them now. )

[sovay]

Foundation is amazingly good, which is wild considering its source! (I inhaled all those books when I was about ten, lol. I don't think I could read them now. )

I think I last read them in middle or high school. I am also highly skeptical of revisiting! But the showrunner has an entire FAQ on his blog about how it is his pet project because his parents were both fans, which makes me very happy.

[dhampyresa]

Thank you for the link! Like kore, I last read the books when I was about ten.

[dhampyresa]

I've only seen the first four episodes of Foundation, but I do like how different the various cultures have looked so far.

I do love a good stepwell. I find cenotes are the closest to the image in my head. I think what was missing in the movie was the sense of scale -- somehow the room felt small, idk.

I WOULD FOLLOW MUADDIB THE MOUSE OVER MUADDIB THE PAUL

[sovay]

I find cenotes are the closest to the image in my head.

That makes sense. Cenotes are majestic.

I WOULD FOLLOW MUADDIB THE MOUSE OVER MUADDIB THE PAUL

I AM SORRY THE FILM DID NOT GIVE YOU MORE MOUSE.